coburn. they say the sequester is going to hit. are they right? >> the american people need to understand that it's not as if we've done something for the debt. $2.6 trillion, $2.6 trillion already we've made in cuts. and all those cuts have come from nondefense programs. we need to keep our eye on the prize and continue doing something about spending, but i think that what we need to do is do some of the things that mitt romney talked about. he said there's some low-hanging fruit. there are a lot of tax loopholes that should be closed. i agree with him. we haven't done that. >> like which ones? >> well, oil subsidies. we have issues dealing with shipping jobs overseas. why don't we do some -- fill some of these -- >> i think if my numbers are correct, you do the oil and gas subsidy, i think that might save you something like 25 billion over ten years. >> no, it's more than that, george. but let's assume because the debt ceiling doesn't kick in till august, i believe that's what we'll have, b